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Last week’s interview with the Franciscan Fr. Richard Rohr on ABC Radio’s Religion Report left quite an impression on me. Richard Rohr, of the Order of Friars Minor, is a famous figure in American Catholicism and is the founder of a spiritual retreat in New Mexico, USA. In his discussion with Stephen Crittenden he echoed much of my own criticisms of the Catholic Church, particularly the distinction between dogmatic religiosity and true spirituality, and the politicisation of the Church. These are not unfamiliar concepts in agnostic circles, but coming from an insider are given additional weight. Allow me to share some of the more poignant quotes from this discussion.

Same Message, Different Metaphors

“You know that what’s been called Buddhism, I as a Franciscan though, was taught by my own 13th, 14th century Franciscan mystics.”

I have always felt that at their fundamental, all religions share a common thread. Arguments of one god or another aside, they all provide a framework for a happy and productive life devoid of unnecessary suffering. This is the essence of Buddhism, and because it is unmarred by the dogma of religiosity is becoming increasingly popular around the world. Ultimately, if one cuts through the differing metaphors and imagery, the Abrahamic religions provide much the same views.

Fr. Rohr goes on to suggest that perhaps what is needed in modern Christianity is a contemporary metaphor to better explain the relevance of Christ’s message to 21st century society:

“I’m trying to find a language and metaphors that make sense to the present consciousness. If you want to call that New Age, I don’t think it is, I think it’s the Gospel of Paul himself, took upon himself to be all things to all people, and I think that’s our task too.”

Religiosity

Another problem I, and many agnostics, have with established religion is the promotion of “religiosity” over true spirituality. It is easier to teach the congregation to go through the motions and follow religious rituals, rather than truly guide them to enlightenment. Fr. Rohr comments:

“But in that, I said are the typical Catholic liturgies liminal space? Do they pull you out of business as usual, into an alternative universe where you have a different frame of reference, which Jesus would call the Kingdom of God. And I have to say it’s overwhelmingly obvious that they don’t.”

“…it’s so obvious to me that we’re not leading people into alternative transcendence experience, but for the most part largely affirming and confirming.”

Power and Self-preservation

“The whole understanding of priesthood itself, which has so aligned itself with power, money, control, and I’m not saying that in an angry or malicious way, but it’s just to join the clergy is to join an establishment world view of status and security.”

For centuries the Roman Catholic Church has dominated Europe and the world politically. With this level of involvement, it is unrealistic to not see the Church as a political entity. As such, one of its prime preoccupations is self-preservation. Fr. Rohr then went on to describe the ethos of the Franciscan Order, something with which I was not aware. Primarily concerned with ground-roots issues, they do not push their members to ordination, and those that do become priests are, in Fr. Rohr’s words, “blue collar priests.” They are sufficiently inside the Church to give themselves credibility, yet sufficiently on the fringe and removed from political power-plays to be relevant to the lay congregation.

Secularism

One of the more revealing things discussed in the interview was the concept of secularism being a “child of Christianity.” He also discusses the relationship between religion and science (a particularly topical issue at the moment):

“I meet scientists who are much more humble before mystery, much more willing to work with mystery and in awe of mystery and in love with mystery than most clergymen I know. And many of these scientists would call themselves secular in various forms. But they’re very generative people for the life of the world, for the sickness of the world, for the health of God’s people, much more than many of us religious and clergy who simply are preoccupied with self-maintenance and self-protection.”

Universalism

“Is God so small that God’s victory can only win over a few?”

Fundamentalists from all faiths believe that they alone will be saved. Fr. Rohr challenges this view with this most-uplifting and optimistic view of spirituality. To an agnostic, this makes perfect sense. I certainly do not wish to believe in a God that saves enlightenment for a select few dogmatic followers.

These are just a few snippets from this 20 minute interview. I often cringe listening to Catholic ideology, yet I found myself hanging onto Richard Rohr’s every word. I urge you to listen or read the full version, found on The Religion Report.